Concrete Roman and Euler: best practices?

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

[I think I just sent the first copy of this post into the ether,
rather than to comp.text.tex. Sorry, if that turns out not to
be the case.]

I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler. (Just to be different, you know!) I
think I understand how to make it work (in LaTeX), but I just want
to find out if anyone has any helpful advice on the best way to
go about things here.

I think that I ought to use packages 'concrete' and 'euler', and
that will make everything work automatically. I've checked, and the
fonts do already exist on my system.
But I've read that the 'concrete' package assumes no Concrete Bold
font is installed. Is this still true, and if so, what's the easiest
way to create one? I have access to the numbers in the relevant chapter
of "Digital Typography," but I don't remember if that table has an
entry for a bold variation. (Also, have no experience with making a
local texmf directory or installing things or any of that complicated
stuff, but I think it might finally be time to learn...)

Are there any other missing fonts or pitfalls I should watch out
for in Concrete/Euler typesetting? Words of encouragement? ;)

Thanks,
-Arthur

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler. [...]
I think that I ought to use packages 'concrete' and 'euler',

No, you don't. These packages are obsolete.

Read the documentation of the LaTeX package "eulervm".
To summarize:

Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,

\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}

load the Euler-VM fonts for math,

\usepackage{eulervm}

and increase the inter-line space a little bit, because Concrete
has a fairly large x-height:

\linespread{1.04} % approximately

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
But I've read that the 'concrete' package assumes no Concrete Bold
font is installed. Is this still true, and if so, what's the easiest
way to create one?

Indeed, there is no Concrete Bold font (and I would not recommend
to create one...)

If you need something appropriate for section headings, use CM Sans
Semibold Condensed. The fd files of the Concrete fonts declare it
as a series "sbc".

Put the following, too, into the preamble:

\renewcommand{\bfdefault}{sbc}

As a result, \bfseries or \textbf (when used with Concrete) yield
CM Sans Demibold Condensed. (I would not recommend to use any
further Sansserif family in the document.)

HTH
Walter

[Matthias Pospiech]

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler. [...]
I think that I ought to use packages 'concrete' and 'euler',

No, you don't. These packages are obsolete.
Read the documentation of the LaTeX package "eulervm".
Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}
load the Euler-VM fonts for math,
\usepackage{eulervm}

Is it possible to create PDF output with these fonts ?
I tried it ones (with eulervm) but had in all the math formulas all "sin",
"cos" and similar as bitmap fonts.

Matthias

[Will Robertson]

Post by Matthias Pospiech
Is it possible to create PDF output with these fonts ?
I tried it ones (with eulervm) but had in all the math formulas all "sin",
"cos" and similar as bitmap fonts.

Yes, the concrete fonts are available in PS Type 1 format in the
CM-Super bundle. (I prefer one of Zapf's other designs as a companion
text font to Euler, however.) I'm not sure if you can download them
separately without requiring the 100+MB the rest of the package takes.

Of course, the Euler math font family is available in PS Type 1 format
by default.

Cheers,
Will Robertson

[Matthias Pospiech]

Post by Matthias Pospiech

Post by Matthias Pospiech
Is it possible to create PDF output with these fonts ?
I tried it ones (with eulervm) but had in all the math formulas all

"sin",

Post by Matthias Pospiech
"cos" and similar as bitmap fonts.

Yes, the concrete fonts are available in PS Type 1 format in the
CM-Super bundle.

[...]

Post by Matthias Pospiech
Of course, the Euler math font family is available in PS Type 1 format
by default.

I use cm-super. However the bitmap font in math (and only there) with
Operators (and only these) still appear as bitmap fonts.

Matthias

[Will Robertson]

Post by Matthias Pospiech
I use cm-super. However the bitmap font in math (and only there) with
Operators (and only these) still appear as bitmap fonts.

I can't verify because I don't have CM-Super at the moment, but it
doesn't look like this should be a problem if you follow this example:

\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}
\usepackage{eulervm}
\linespread{1.04}
\begin{document}
Example:
\[ \int \sin^2(x) + \cos^2(x) \,dx = x\]
\end{document}

Will

[Morten Høgholm]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:06:45 +0100, Matthias Pospiech

Post by Matthias Pospiech
I use cm-super. However the bitmap font in math (and only there) with
Operators (and only these) still appear as bitmap fonts.

Use the T1 fontencoding.

[José Carlos Santos]

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler. [...]
I think that I ought to use packages 'concrete' and 'euler',

No, you don't. These packages are obsolete.
Read the documentation of the LaTeX package "eulervm".
Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}

I'm a bit surprised here. Why don't you suggest the use of the ccfonts
package? After all, you wrote it! (And I use it, BTW).

Best regards,

Jose Carlos Santos

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by José Carlos Santos

Post by Walter Schmidt
[...]
Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}

I'm a bit surprised here. Why don't you suggest the use of the ccfonts
package? After all, you wrote it! (And I use it, BTW).

Because ccfonts changes the math fonts to Concrete Math,
while the OP wants to use Euler-VM.

Walter

[José Carlos Santos]

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by José Carlos Santos
I'm a bit surprised here. Why don't you suggest the use of the ccfonts
package? After all, you wrote it! (And I use it, BTW).

Because ccfonts changes the math fonts to Concrete Math,
while the OP wants to use Euler-VM.

OK. What I do is to load ccfonts before loading Euler-VM to get what the
OP wants.

Thanks,

Jose Carlos Santos

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by José Carlos Santos

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by José Carlos Santos
I'm a bit surprised here. Why don't you suggest the use of the ccfonts
package? After all, you wrote it! (And I use it, BTW).

Because ccfonts changes the math fonts to Concrete Math,
while the OP wants to use Euler-VM.

OK. What I do is to load ccfonts before loading Euler-VM to get what the
OP wants.

There is a small piece of code in ccfonts.sty, which affects the
size of math delimiters, and which would _not_ be overwritten or
canceled by loading of eulervm.sty subsequently. That's why I did
not suggest your solution. Well, as long as this does not yield
any visible flaw, it is apparantly not a real problem.

Walter

[José Carlos Santos]

Post by Walter Schmidt
There is a small piece of code in ccfonts.sty, which affects the
size of math delimiters, and which would _not_ be overwritten or
canceled by loading of eulervm.sty subsequently. That's why I did
not suggest your solution. Well, as long as this does not yield
any visible flaw, it is apparantly not a real problem.

I think that there's a problem with your approach. Indeed, if you
type $\exp$ you'll get the letters "exp" typeset in Computer Modern,
whereas if you load the packages ccfonts and eulervm (by this order)
you'll get them typeset in Concrete. I believe that that's what most
users would want.

Best regards,

Jose Carlos Santos

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by José Carlos Santos
I think that there's a problem with your approach. Indeed, if you
type $\exp$ you'll get the letters "exp" typeset in Computer Modern,
whereas if you load the packages ccfonts and eulervm (by this order)
you'll get them typeset in Concrete. I believe that that's what most
users would want.

???
No, ccfonts.sty is not required to to obtain this result.
The following example prints "exp" in Concrete:

\documentclass{article}
%
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}
\usepackage{eulervm}
%
\begin{document}
$\exp$
\end{document}

The important issue it to change \rmdefault before loading
eulervm. See the documentation of the eulervm package.

Walter

[José Carlos Santos]

Post by Walter Schmidt
The important issue it to change \rmdefault before loading
eulervm. See the documentation of the eulervm package.

Sure, and what I did was to load the eulervm package first and to
change \rmdefault after. Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,

Jose Carlos Santos

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler.

[...]

Post by Walter Schmidt
Read the documentation of the LaTeX package "eulervm".
Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}
load the Euler-VM fonts for math,
\usepackage{eulervm}
and increase the inter-line space a little bit, because Concrete
\linespread{1.04} % approximately

Thanks (and also thanks to everyone else who responded) --- this works
just fine (so far!).

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
But I've read that the 'concrete' package assumes no Concrete Bold
font is installed. Is this still true, and if so, what's the easiest
way to create one?

Indeed, there is no Concrete Bold font (and I would not recommend
to create one...)

Why not? Would the technical aspects of it really be very complicated,
or has it been established that a "bolder" version of CR would look
hopelessly ugly (I don't think so!), or what?
Certainly nobody seems to have publicized any bold variant for Concrete
Roman; I even found a Postscript document online claiming to list a whole
bunch of TeX fonts, and what it called "Concrete Roman Bold" was CM Sans
Serif Semibold Condensed, as you suggested I use instead.
But "sbc" just looks completely out of place when placed next to
Concrete Roman --- even more out of place than Computer Modern Bold!
The problems are obvious from the name: It's too narrow ("Condensed"),
and it's sans-serif.

So, why don't you suggest creating a bold variant? And why hasn't one
already been created? (And does anyone know --- what did the "Concrete
Mathematics" book do about bold? Did it just avoid using boldface
entirely?)

Puzzled,
-Arthur

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer

Post by Walter Schmidt
Indeed, there is no Concrete Bold font (and I would not recommend
to create one...)

Why not?

Because I know that font design is a hard job.

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
Would the technical aspects of it really be very complicated,
or has it been established that a "bolder" version of CR would look
hopelessly ugly

Concrete is somewhat similar to CM Typewriter; there have been
attempts to create a bold CMTT font, and the result were far
from pleasing. But YMMV.

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
But "sbc" just looks completely out of place when placed next to
Concrete Roman

It is not meant to be placed "next" to Concrete Roman. It is meant
to be used for section headings or titles, when the body text is
typeset in Concrete.

Greetings
Walter

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
I'm thinking of typesetting my physics homework this semester in
Concrete Roman and Euler.

[...]

Post by Walter Schmidt
Read the documentation of the LaTeX package "eulervm".
Change the default roman typeface family to Concrete,
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ccr}
load the Euler-VM fonts for math,
\usepackage{eulervm}
and increase the inter-line space a little bit, because Concrete
\linespread{1.04} % approximately

Thanks (and also thanks to everyone else who responded) --- this
works just fine (so far!).

Hmm. I still have a couple of problems, I guess. First, the 'eulervm'
package (version 4.0) doesn't want to render digits in Euler. Trying

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{eulervm}
\begin{document}
$x_n0123456789x_0x_1x_2$
\end{document}

I get all the letters in Euler, but all the digits in Computer Modern.
(Using 'ccfonts' as well, the digits show up in Concrete Roman.) Why
is this happening?


Also, now that I'm seeing CR and Euler next to each other on the
screen, I'm having second thoughts about their suitability for each
other --- Euler looks very light by comparison, in Acrobat Reader.
But I know Acrobat Reader has some other display problems, so I'll
print out some stuff with math in it before I decide to scrap the
project. ;)

-Arthur

[Walter Schmidt]

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
Hmm. I still have a couple of problems, I guess. First, the 'eulervm'
package (version 4.0) doesn't want to render digits in Euler. Trying
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{eulervm}
\begin{document}
$x_n0123456789x_0x_1x_2$
\end{document}
I get all the letters in Euler, but all the digits in Computer Modern.

Please, read the documentation of the eulervm package!

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
(Using 'ccfonts' as well, the digits show up in Concrete Roman.) Why
is this happening?

Again: RTFM.
And, please read the other messages in this thread.

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
Also, now that I'm seeing CR and Euler next to each other on the
screen, I'm having second thoughts about their suitability for each
other --- Euler looks very light by comparison, in Acrobat Reader.

This may occur in print, too :-( Euler, particularly in Type1 format,
is very sensitive to printing conditions, while Concrete is rather
"robust".

However, you should not focus on the use of Euler together with
Concrete (even though this was how DEK used these typefaces first).
The Euler math fonts go well with many other popular text fonts such
as Palatino, Minion and Sabon. That's the main use of the eulervm
package!

best wishes
Walter

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
Hmm. I still have a couple of problems, I guess. First, the 'eulervm'
package (version 4.0) doesn't want to render digits in Euler.

Please, read the documentation of the eulervm package!

Ah. Right.

Post by Walter Schmidt

Post by Arthur J. O'Dwyer
Also, now that I'm seeing CR and Euler next to each other on the
screen, I'm having second thoughts about their suitability for each
other --- Euler looks very light by comparison, in Acrobat Reader.

This may occur in print, too :-( Euler, particularly in Type1 format,
is very sensitive to printing conditions, while Concrete is rather
"robust".
However, you should not focus on the use of Euler together with
Concrete (even though this was how DEK used these typefaces first).
The Euler math fonts go well with many other popular text fonts such
as Palatino, Minion and Sabon. That's the main use of the eulervm
package!

Actually, I like the look of Concrete more than I like the look of
Euler, at the moment. :) Maybe I should just give up on Euler and
stick with Concrete... or maybe just go back to the defaults entirely!

-Arthur