Discussion:
Footnote in a BibTex entry
(too old to reply)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-05-15 13:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created with
BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons of
advice about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know how to
do that, and it's not what I want.

Consider the following BibTex entry:

@article{Butlerov61,
author={A. Boutlerow},
year={1861},
title={Formation synth\'etique d'une substance sucr\'ee},
journal={Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.},
volume={53},
pages={145-147},
note={Butlerov used the French spelling of his name in the paper.}
}

That works fine, and it's not absolutely essential to change it, but
I'd prefer to have the note printed as a footnote attached to
"Boutlerow". Is that possible?
--
athel
Peter Flynn
2020-05-15 14:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created with
BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons of advice
about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know how to do that,
and it's not what I want.
Not in old BiBTxE, as far as I know, unless you program it yourself.
But you can do this in biblatex with biber: see the biblatex
documentation, v.3.9, p.49 and p.237

Peter

test.tex ===============================================================

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[backend=biber,style=authoryear,
notetype=footonly]{biblatex}
\addbibresource{test.bib}
\begin{document}
Like this one by \textcite{Butlerov61}.
\printbibliography
\end{document}

test.bib ===============================================================

@article{Butlerov61,
author = {A. Boutlerow},
year = 1861,
title = {{Formation synthétique d'une substance sucrée}},
journaltitle = {Compt.\ rend.\ Acad.\ Sci.},
volume = 53,
pages = {145-147},
note = {\mkbibfootnote{Butlerov used the French spelling of his
name in the paper.}}
}

========================================================================
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
@article{Butlerov61,
author={A. Boutlerow},
year={1861},
title={Formation synth\'etique d'une substance sucr\'ee},
journal={Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.},
volume={53},
pages={145-147},
note={Butlerov used the French spelling of his name in the paper.}
}
That works fine, and it's not absolutely essential to change it, but I'd
prefer to have the note printed as a footnote attached to "Boutlerow".
Is that possible?
Moewe
2020-05-15 17:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flynn
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created with
BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons of
advice about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know how to
do that, and it's not what I want.
Not in old BiBTxE, as far as I know, unless you program it yourself.
But you can do this in biblatex with biber: see the biblatex
documentation, v.3.9, p.49 and p.237
Peter
test.tex ===============================================================
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[backend=biber,style=authoryear,
  notetype=footonly]{biblatex}
\addbibresource{test.bib}
\begin{document}
Like this one by \textcite{Butlerov61}.
\printbibliography
\end{document}
test.bib ===============================================================
@article{Butlerov61,
  author      = {A. Boutlerow},
  year      = 1861,
  title      = {{Formation synthétique d'une substance sucrée}},
  journaltitle      = {Compt.\ rend.\ Acad.\ Sci.},
  volume      = 53,
  pages      = {145-147},
  note      = {\mkbibfootnote{Butlerov used the French spelling of his
                  name in the paper.}}
}
========================================================================
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
@article{Butlerov61,
author={A. Boutlerow},
year={1861},
title={Formation synth\'etique d'une substance sucr\'ee},
journal={Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.},
volume={53},
pages={145-147},
note={Butlerov used the French spelling of his name in the paper.}
}
That works fine, and it's not absolutely essential to change it, but
I'd prefer to have the note printed as a footnote attached to
"Boutlerow". Is that possible?
Here is a much more complex biblatex solution that uses biblatex/Biber's
data annotations.

The advantage is that you can attach the footnote directly to the name.


\documentclass[british]{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{csquotes}

\usepackage[style=authoryear, backend=biber]{biblatex}

\newbibmacro{printnamenote}{%
\hasitemannotation[\currentname][note]
{\mkbibfootnote{\getitemannotation[\currentname][note]}}
{}}

\DeclareNameFormat{family-given/given-family:note}{%
\ifnumequal{\value{listcount}}{1}
{\ifgiveninits
{\usebibmacro{name:family-given}
{\namepartfamily}
{\namepartgiveni}
{\namepartprefix}
{\namepartsuffix}}
{\usebibmacro{name:family-given}
{\namepartfamily}
{\namepartgiven}
{\namepartprefix}
{\namepartsuffix}}%
\ifboolexpe{%
test {\ifdefvoid\namepartgiven}
and
test {\ifdefvoid\namepartprefix}}
{}
{\usebibmacro{name:revsdelim}}}
{\ifgiveninits
{\usebibmacro{name:given-family}
{\namepartfamily}
{\namepartgiveni}
{\namepartprefix}
{\namepartsuffix}}
{\usebibmacro{name:given-family}
{\namepartfamily}
{\namepartgiven}
{\namepartprefix}
{\namepartsuffix}}}%
\usebibmacro{printnamenote}%
\usebibmacro{name:andothers}}

\DeclareNameAlias{sortname}{family-given/given-family:note}

\begin{filecontents}{\jobname.bib}
@article{Butlerov61,
author = {A. Boutlerow},
author+an:note = {1="Butlerov used the French spelling
of his name in the paper."},
year = 1861,
title = {Formation synthétique d'une substance sucrée},
journal = {Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.},
volume = 53,
pages = {145-147},
}
\end{filecontents}
\addbibresource{\jobname.bib}


\begin{document}
\cite{Butlerov61}
\printbibliography
\end{document}

Sorry to Peter, to whom I probably sent this email on the first attempt
instead of the newsgroup.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-05-16 07:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created with
BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons of
advice about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know how to
do that, and it's not what I want.
Thanks to both. I feared that I was going to be told to use BibLaTeX.
No doubt that is true, but it's difficult enough to convince publishers
of biological journals that they need to understand LaTeX and BibTeX,
and I suspect that BibLaTeX would be step too far.

--
athel
Moewe
2020-05-16 10:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created
with BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons
of advice about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know
how to do that, and it's not what I want.
Thanks to both. I feared that I was going to be told to use BibLaTeX. No
doubt that is true, but it's difficult enough to convince publishers of
biological journals that they need to understand LaTeX and BibTeX, and I
suspect that BibLaTeX would be step too far.
Ah, I see. For journal submissions biblatex is indeed quite likely not
an option.

It is not completely inconceivable that something similar might be done
(with a lot of effort) in BibTeX, but for a journal submission (where it
it is sometimes required to copy the .bbl file into the main .tex file
anyway) it may be an option to just add the footnote manually in the
bibliography entry generated by BibTeX (in the .bbl).

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}
\cite{Butlerov61}

\begin{thebibliography}{1}

\bibitem{Butlerov61}
A.~Boutlerow\footnote{Butlerov used the French spelling of his name in
the paper.}.
\newblock Formation synthétique d'une substance sucrée.
\newblock {\em Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.}, 53:145--147, 1861.

\end{thebibliography}
\end{document}

In the end you can always explicitly ask the editor to include a
footnote in the bibliography even if your manuscript doesn't have one.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-05-16 13:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moewe
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Is there a simple way to put a footnote in a bibliography created with
BibTex? When I search with plausible search strings I get tons of
advice about putting citations in footnotes, but I already know how to
do that, and it's not what I want.
Thanks to both. I feared that I was going to be told to use BibLaTeX.
No doubt that is true, but it's difficult enough to convince publishers
of biological journals that they need to understand LaTeX and BibTeX,
and I suspect that BibLaTeX would be step too far.
Ah, I see. For journal submissions biblatex is indeed quite likely not
an option.
It is not completely inconceivable that something similar might be done
(with a lot of effort) in BibTeX, but for a journal submission (where
it it is sometimes required to copy the .bbl file into the main .tex
file anyway) it may be an option to just add the footnote manually in
the bibliography entry generated by BibTeX (in the .bbl).
\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\cite{Butlerov61}
\begin{thebibliography}{1}
\bibitem{Butlerov61}
A.~Boutlerow\footnote{Butlerov used the French spelling of his name in
the paper.}.
\newblock Formation synthétique d'une substance sucrée.
\newblock {\em Compt. rend. Acad. Sci.}, 53:145--147, 1861.
\end{thebibliography}
\end{document}
In the end you can always explicitly ask the editor to include a
footnote in the bibliography even if your manuscript doesn't have one.
Thanks. That's a good idea, which I didn't think of.
--
athel
Peter Flynn
2020-05-16 20:43:46 UTC
Permalink
On 16/05/2020 11:44, Moewe wrote:
[...]
Post by Moewe
Ah, I see. For journal submissions biblatex is indeed quite likely
not an option.
As usual, there's an easy way and a hard way. Biblatex is the easy way,
but it's new and disruptive to old workflows using BiBTeX.
Post by Moewe
It is not completely inconceivable that something similar might be
done (with a lot of effort) in BibTeX, but for a journal submission
(where it it is sometimes required to copy the .bbl file into the
main .tex file anyway) it may be an option to just add the footnote
manually in the bibliography entry generated by BibTeX (in the .bbl)
That may have to be the interim solution.

Peter
Peter Flynn
2020-05-16 20:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Thanks to both. I feared that I was going to be told to use BibLaTeX.
No doubt that is true, but it's difficult enough to convince
publishers of biological journals that they need to understand LaTeX
and BibTeX, and I suspect that BibLaTeX would be step too far.
I wouldn't mention old BiBTeX at all, and if they ask, explain that it
has been superseded by biblatex, which is much more robust and easier to
use IMNSHO.

Sadly, what really needs to happen is for authors to use an editor that
looks and sucks like Word, but transparently generates XML (JATS, for
example, which is becoming the de facto standard for scientific
journals, or TEI for the Humanities); and then for the journals to use
XSLT and LaTeX to create their PDF and EPUB and web site. If authors
write directly in LaTeX, the publisher is going to have to figure out
how to get it into XML at some stage anyway.

Peter
Axel Berger
2020-05-16 20:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flynn
Sadly, what really needs to happen is for authors to use an editor that
looks and sucks like Word, but transparently generates XML
Whatever for? The input and the editing are what makes LaTeX great. The
end product from Word, if done by someone who knows how to use it
(rare), is absolutlely good enough for me, but I refuse to submit to
that abomination of an interface.

If it's a decent, not too ridiculous and well documented variant of XML
I'd be glad to write that directly. Why not? I write HTML besides LaTeX
and markup is markup. If it's half-way well designed, one can use it. Of
course it will be verbose, but, to be honest, so is current LaTeX
compared to 2.09.
--
/¯\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067
\ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Straße 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069
 X in | D-50829 Köln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de
/ \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --
Peter Flynn
2020-05-16 23:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Axel Berger
Post by Peter Flynn
Sadly, what really needs to happen is for authors to use an editor that
looks and sucks like Word, but transparently generates XML
Whatever for?
Because that's what the publishing industry uses, in most cases, either
before or after publication. Excluding a few, publisher's don't like,
understand, or use LaTeX.
Post by Axel Berger
The input and the editing are what makes LaTeX great.
For you and me, yep. Not for publishers.
Post by Axel Berger
The end product from Word, if done by someone who knows how to use
it (rare), is absolutely good enough for me,
Right, and they can do that because Word (now) is XML inside.
Post by Axel Berger
but I refuse to submit to that abomination of an interface.
Yep, it's a nightmare.

But MOST writers will never know, see, or use LaTeX (excluding the
obvious candidates like mathematicians, physicists, etc). All they want
is a program which behaves like Word. What publishing needs is a progra,
that does that, but produces something like JATS instead of .docx
Post by Axel Berger
If it's a decent, not too ridiculous and well documented variant of
XML I'd be glad to write that directly.
Both JATS and TEI are HEAVILY documented and very well supported. They
are designed for storing documents, so like much XML, they are a bit
cumbersome to use unless you have a real XML editor to hand (and there
are only two free ones: Emacs/psgml/nxml and xmlcopyeditor).
Post by Axel Berger
Why not? I write HTML besides LaTeX and markup is markup. If it's
half-way well designed, one can use it. Of course it will be verbose,
but, to be honest, so is current LaTeX compared to 2.09.
I don't think you'd have any problem with any of it, but your average
lab scientist or humanities researcher will look upon XML with the same
disfavour as they look upon LaTeX :-)

But we do get converts...

P
Bernhard Kleine
2020-05-17 08:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flynn
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Thanks to both. I feared that I was going to be told to use BibLaTeX.
No doubt that is true, but it's difficult enough to convince
publishers of biological journals that they need to understand LaTeX
and BibTeX, and I suspect that BibLaTeX would be step too far.
I wouldn't mention old BiBTeX at all, and if they ask, explain that it
has been superseded by biblatex, which is much more robust and easier to
use IMNSHO.
Sadly, what really needs to happen is for authors to use an editor that
looks and sucks like Word, but transparently generates XML (JATS, for
example, which is becoming the de facto standard for scientific
journals, or TEI for the Humanities); and then for the journals to use
XSLT and LaTeX to create their PDF and EPUB and web site. If authors
write directly in LaTeX, the publisher is going to have to figure out
how to get it into XML at some stage anyway.
Peter
Even if one presents a xml version (docbook) it takes an eternity to
produce it: I was extremely angry with the errorneous way Springer
(India) edited my latex book to produce a ebook. For this reason, with
the next book I turned to docbook and presented them with a xml version.
This was 18 months ago. The conversion from docbook to a++ xml, the one
Springer uses, seems extremely complex and while I was during the
writing assured that it would be an easy way to convert it, it turns out
time-consuming. This is also very hard to understand, since the new book
has already been announced and sale of the old one has dropped to zero.
For the next version if any I will turn back to LaTex although writing
in XML is fairly easy; or I can convince them to let me use A++.


Bernhard

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