Discussion:
compound surnames, Bibtex, ordering in References section
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Martijn Meijers
2011-02-02 10:46:04 UTC
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Dear group members,


I've been looking to find an answer to this question around the web,
read a lot of documentation on Bibtex, but I can't seem to find an
answer...


The problem:

I have a set of references that contain authors with compound
surnames. Let's assume:

0. M. Meijers
1. J. van Oostrum
2. M. von Braunsteigen
3. B. Baan


I'd like to have a sorting as follows:

0. Baan, B.
1. von Braunsteigen, M.
2. Meijers, M.
3. van Oostrum, J.


My questions:

A. Is it possible to let BibteX perform the sorting on surname only as
proposed (thus Oostrum ending up in the reference list under O, and
Braunsteigen ending up under B)? Is there a standard .bst option for
that?

B. What's the common way of sorting these type of compound surname
citations? If I'm correct, I think in Dutch I would do it as proposed
under A (so "von" part does not take part in sorting phase, only in
case of equal, then put later in list, but still under the first
letter of the 'real' surname), but how is this in the English
language?


Martijn
Joost Kremers
2011-02-02 13:41:03 UTC
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Post by Martijn Meijers
I have a set of references that contain authors with compound
0. M. Meijers
1. J. van Oostrum
2. M. von Braunsteigen
3. B. Baan
0. Baan, B.
1. von Braunsteigen, M.
2. Meijers, M.
3. van Oostrum, J.
A. Is it possible to let BibteX perform the sorting on surname only as
proposed (thus Oostrum ending up in the reference list under O, and
Braunsteigen ending up under B)? Is there a standard .bst option for
that?
at the top of your .bib-file, put the following:

@PREAMBLE{"\providecommand{\noopsort}[1]{}"}

then, write the following in the author (editor) field:

author = {{\noopsort{oostrum}}van Oostrum, J.}

bibtex ignores command names but otherwise uses all text for sorting, so it'll
sort this author name under O. LaTeX, when processing the file, will process
\noopsort, replacing {oostrum} with the empty string, so that the author appears
as "van Oostrum".

the only thing this doesn't handle is the dutch convention of writing "Jan van
Oostrum" (with small v) but "Van Oostrum" or "Van Oostrum, Jan" (with capital
V). but AFAIK there's no way to get that right with bibtex.
Post by Martijn Meijers
B. What's the common way of sorting these type of compound surname
citations? If I'm correct, I think in Dutch I would do it as proposed
under A (so "von" part does not take part in sorting phase, only in
case of equal, then put later in list, but still under the first
letter of the 'real' surname), but how is this in the English
language?
I don't know, honestly. I've seen both. I've also seen citations in the text
being done without the "van" part altogether, so something like "As shown in
Oostrum (2005)..." when referencing someone named "Van Oostrum".
--
Joost Kremers ***@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)
Enrico Gregorio
2011-02-02 15:21:26 UTC
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Post by Joost Kremers
Post by Martijn Meijers
I have a set of references that contain authors with compound
0. M. Meijers
1. J. van Oostrum
2. M. von Braunsteigen
3. B. Baan
0. Baan, B.
1. von Braunsteigen, M.
2. Meijers, M.
3. van Oostrum, J.
A. Is it possible to let BibteX perform the sorting on surname only as
proposed (thus Oostrum ending up in the reference list under O, and
Braunsteigen ending up under B)? Is there a standard .bst option for
that?
@PREAMBLE{"\providecommand{\noopsort}[1]{}"}
author = {{\noopsort{oostrum}}van Oostrum, J.}
bibtex ignores command names but otherwise uses all text for sorting, so it'll
sort this author name under O. LaTeX, when processing the file, will process
\noopsort, replacing {oostrum} with the empty string, so that the author appears
as "van Oostrum".
the only thing this doesn't handle is the dutch convention of writing "Jan van
Oostrum" (with small v) but "Van Oostrum" or "Van Oostrum, Jan" (with capital
V). but AFAIK there's no way to get that right with bibtex.
Post by Martijn Meijers
B. What's the common way of sorting these type of compound surname
citations? If I'm correct, I think in Dutch I would do it as proposed
under A (so "von" part does not take part in sorting phase, only in
case of equal, then put later in list, but still under the first
letter of the 'real' surname), but how is this in the English
language?
I don't know, honestly. I've seen both. I've also seen citations in the text
being done without the "van" part altogether, so something like "As shown in
Oostrum (2005)..." when referencing someone named "Van Oostrum".
Otherwise build a personalized bibstyle via makebst. The standard
styles accord to the English use where "von" is treated as part
of the surname and alphabetized as such.

With biblatex you can decide whether to use "von" as part of the
surname or not.

Ciao
Enrico
d***@gmail.com
2018-10-26 08:33:21 UTC
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I know this is an old thread but I had this problem and a Google search brought this up. I just found a very easy way to do this, so I should share with people.

Put braces { } around what you want the first name or surname to be. For example, I had the problem of a compound surname To Law, which came up under Law rather than To Law. So write {To Law} instead. It also works with {A van} B.
Post by Martijn Meijers
Dear group members,
I've been looking to find an answer to this question around the web,
read a lot of documentation on Bibtex, but I can't seem to find an
answer...
I have a set of references that contain authors with compound
0. M. Meijers
1. J. van Oostrum
2. M. von Braunsteigen
3. B. Baan
0. Baan, B.
1. von Braunsteigen, M.
2. Meijers, M.
3. van Oostrum, J.
A. Is it possible to let BibteX perform the sorting on surname only as
proposed (thus Oostrum ending up in the reference list under O, and
Braunsteigen ending up under B)? Is there a standard .bst option for
that?
B. What's the common way of sorting these type of compound surname
citations? If I'm correct, I think in Dutch I would do it as proposed
under A (so "von" part does not take part in sorting phase, only in
case of equal, then put later in list, but still under the first
letter of the 'real' surname), but how is this in the English
language?
Martijn
Mico Loretan
2018-10-27 04:49:24 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
It also works with {A van} B.
I suppose this depends on what you mean by “works”. If all you care about is affecting the sorting order, your claim is correct. If, on the other hand, you use a bibliography style that truncates first names to their initials, you may not be happy with “van” and “de” being replaced with “v.” and “d.”, respectively.
jfh
2018-10-28 23:06:10 UTC
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Post by Mico Loretan
Post by d***@gmail.com
It also works with {A van} B.
I suppose this depends on what you mean by “works”. If all you care about is affecting the sorting order, your claim is correct. If, on the other hand, you use a bibliography style that truncates first names to their initials, you may not be happy with “van” and “de” being replaced with “v.” and “d.”, respectively.
English-speaking editors and librarians differ on how to sort people with multi-word surnames. There was a famous Belgian mathematician called C. J. de la Vall{\'e}e Poussin; you may find him sorted under D,L,V or P.
The problem of "van" -> "v." also arises with peers. To get Rayleigh, Lord listed that way (not Rayleigh,L. or Rayleigh, Lord.) I had to put this in my .bib file:

\usepackage{ifthen}
@preamble{"\providecommand{\eatdot}[1]{\ifthenelse{\equal{#1}{.}}{}{#1}} "}

author = {Rayleigh, {\relax Lord\aftergroup\eatdot}}

British titles can cause other problems too. If you work on history of science you may need to refer to Oxmantown, Lord (subsequently 3rd Earl of Rosse) and Oxmantown, Lord (subsequently 4th Earl of Rosse). And I have once seen Sir Horace Lamb referred to as Lamb, S.H. instead of Lamb, H.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-10-29 08:21:06 UTC
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Post by jfh
It also works with {A van} B.>> I suppose this depends on what you mean
by “works”. If all you care about is affecting the sorting order, your
claim is correct. If, on the other hand, you use a bibliography style
that truncates first names to their initials, you may not be happy with
“van” and “de” being replaced with “v.” and “d.”, respectively.
English-speaking editors and librarians differ on how to sort people
with multi-word surnames. There was a famous Belgian mathematician
called C. J. de la Vall{\'e}e Poussin; you may find him sorted under
D,L,V or P.The problem of "van" -> "v." also arises with peers. To get
Rayleigh, Lord listed that way (not Rayleigh,L. or Rayleigh, Lord.) I
\usepackage{ifthen}
@preamble{"\providecommand{\eatdot}[1]{\ifthenelse{\equal{#1}{.}}{}{#1}} "}
author = {Rayleigh, {\relax Lord\aftergroup\eatdot}}
British titles can cause other problems too. If you work on history of
science you may need to refer to Oxmantown, Lord (subsequently 3rd Earl
of Rosse) and Oxmantown, Lord (subsequently 4th Earl of Rosse). And I
have once seen Sir Horace Lamb referred to as Lamb, S.H. instead of
Lamb, H.
Not just English-speaking editors, but Dutch, Belgian, South African,
American and Northern French editors have different ideas about how to
write and index names in van. American scientists, like D. D. Van
Slyke, are always written with Van and indexed under Van. The Dutch
write van or Van according to rules that I couldn't understand when I
was editing a book with many such names and I asked a Dutch colleague
for advice. The Belgian and South African rules are different. Getting
bibtex to do what you want is the least of your problems! For indexes I
tend to put them in both places, J. H. van 't Hoff, for example, both
under H (Hoff, J. H. van 't) and under v (van 't Hoff, J. H.). It's not
ultimately a question of which is right, but what readers, not
necessarily well informed, will look for.
--
athel
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