Discussion:
gloassaries: english acronyms in german text
(too old to reply)
Alexander Zimmermann
2010-07-15 09:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi folks, hi Nicola,

the German grammar rules said that when we combine English with German
words we have to use dashes. For Example: Congestion-Control-Algorithmus
or IP-Adresse. Since the latter is an acronym, glossaries comes into play.

If I use \ac{IP}-Adresse, I get "Internet Protocoll (IP)-Adresse" for
the first use, what's not really nice. So I defined a new command
\acd{acronym}{german-word} that prints the dashes automatically. First
use "Internet Protocoll (IP) Adresse", second use "IP-Adresse".

However, my command is not very clever, because

1. I cannot write \acd{IP}{\gsl{Segement}}, despite the fact that I
declare acd as robust command.

2. Even worst I lost some functionality. \ac knows a star version \ac*{}
or \ac{}[], what's no longer possible. How can I get this back?

Alex

--
\documentclass{scrbook}

\usepackage[acronym,shortcuts]{glossaries}

\newacronym{IP}{IP}{Internet Protocol}
\newacronym{TCP}{TCP}{Transmission Control Protocol}
\newglossaryentry{Segment}{%
name={Segment},
plural={Segmente},
description={Logische Dateneinheit der Transportschicht}
}


\makeatletter
\@ifdefinable{\acd}{%
\DeclareRobustCommand*{\acd}[3][]{%
\ifglsused{#2}{%
\ac[#1]{#2}-\ifthenelse{\equal{#3}{\empty}}{a}{#3}%
}{%
\ac[#1]{#2}\ifthenelse{\equal{#3}{\empty}}{b}{ #3}%
}%
}%
}
\makeatother

\makeglossaries

\begin{document}
\acd{IP}{Adresse}\\
\acd{IP}{Adresse}\\
\gls{Segment}\\
%\acd{TCP}{\gls{Segment}}\\
\end{document}
--
//
// Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Zimmermann
// Department of Computer Science, Informatik 4
// RWTH Aachen University
// Ahornstr. 55, 52056 Aachen, Germany
// phone: (49-241) 80-21468, fax: (49-241) 80-22220
// email: ***@cs.rwth-aachen.de
// web: http://www.umic-mesh.net
//
Nicola Talbot
2010-07-15 11:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
the German grammar rules said that when we combine English with German
words we have to use dashes. For Example: Congestion-Control-Algorithmus
or IP-Adresse. Since the latter is an acronym, glossaries comes into play.
If I use \ac{IP}-Adresse, I get "Internet Protocoll (IP)-Adresse" for
the first use, what's not really nice. So I defined a new command
\acd{acronym}{german-word} that prints the dashes automatically. First
use "Internet Protocoll (IP) Adresse", second use "IP-Adresse".
Try the following (requires at least v2.06):

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[shortcuts]{glossaries}

\SetCustomStyle

\renewcommand*{\CustomAcronymFields}{%
name={\the\glsshorttok},%
description={\the\glslongtok},%
first={\the\glslongtok},%
firstplural={\the\glslongtok\noexpand\acrpluralsuffix},%
text={\the\glsshorttok},%
plural={\the\glsshorttok\noexpand\acrpluralsuffix}%
}

\renewcommand*{\SetCustomDisplayStyle}[1]{%
\defglsdisplay[#1]{##1##4}%
\defglsdisplayfirst[#1]{##1##4\space(\glsentryuseri{\glslabel})}%
}

\newacronym{IP}{IP}{Internet Protocoll}

\begin{document}
\ac{IP}[-Adresse]
\end{document}

Regards
Nicola Talbot
--
Home: http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/
LaTeX Related Information: http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/latex/
Creating a LaTeX Minimal Example:
http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/latex/minexample/

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Alexander Zimmermann
2010-07-15 17:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The problem is that when we combine one German word with more then one
English word, we need a dash between *all* words. On the other side, if
we write only English words, then we write *no* dashes... I know it's
complicate :-) Example

* Das sind Internet-Protocol-Adressen.
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protocol (IP).

Even worst, what do we do with the abbreviation in the first case? What
is IMO not a solution according German grammar rules: "Das sind
Internet-Protocol-Adressen (IP)", because in this case the short form is
not "equal" with the long version. A right solution would be "Das sind
Internet-Protocol-Adressen (IP-Adressen)."

The problem is now that the German term can possibly be also a glossary
entry. Example: TCP-Segment. Here "Segment" is a German word and linked
to the glossary. I cannot write \ac{TCP}[\gls{Segment}].

So my solution was to write "Das sind Internet-Protocol (IP) Adressen.",
because it's easier to implement with glossaries and second it's IMO
compatible with German grammar rules.

Possible Solutions are
1. More German like, but harder to implement
* Das sind Internet-Protocol-Adressen (IP-Adressen).
Das sind IP-Adressen.
\glsreset
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protokoll (IP).

2. Maybe easier to implement
* Das sind Internet-Protocol (IP) Adressen.
Das sind IP-Adressen.
\glsreset
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protokoll (IP).


Alex
Post by Nicola Talbot
the German grammar rules said that when we combine English with German
words we have to use dashes. For Example: Congestion-Control-Algorithmus
or IP-Adresse. Since the latter is an acronym, glossaries comes into play.
If I use \ac{IP}-Adresse, I get "Internet Protocoll (IP)-Adresse" for
the first use, what's not really nice. So I defined a new command
\acd{acronym}{german-word} that prints the dashes automatically. First
use "Internet Protocoll (IP) Adresse", second use "IP-Adresse".
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[shortcuts]{glossaries}
\SetCustomStyle
\renewcommand*{\CustomAcronymFields}{%
name={\the\glsshorttok},%
description={\the\glslongtok},%
first={\the\glslongtok},%
firstplural={\the\glslongtok\noexpand\acrpluralsuffix},%
text={\the\glsshorttok},%
plural={\the\glsshorttok\noexpand\acrpluralsuffix}%
}
\renewcommand*{\SetCustomDisplayStyle}[1]{%
\defglsdisplay[#1]{##1##4}%
\defglsdisplayfirst[#1]{##1##4\space(\glsentryuseri{\glslabel})}%
}
\newacronym{IP}{IP}{Internet Protocoll}
\begin{document}
\ac{IP}[-Adresse]
\end{document}
Regards
Nicola Talbot
--
//
// Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Zimmermann
// Department of Computer Science, Informatik 4
// RWTH Aachen University
// Ahornstr. 55, 52056 Aachen, Germany
// phone: (49-241) 80-21468, fax: (49-241) 80-22220
// email: ***@cs.rwth-aachen.de
// web: http://www.umic-mesh.net
//
Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
2010-07-16 11:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@mid.dfncis.de>, ***@i4.informatik.rwth-
aachen.de says...
Post by Alexander Zimmermann
The problem is that when we combine one German word with more then one
English word, we need a dash between *all* words. On the other side, if
we write only English words, then we write *no* dashes... I know it's
complicate :-) Example
* Das sind Internet-Protocol-Adressen.
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protocol (IP).
Because you are already using German flexions, I would go the whole way
and say: "Das sind Internet Protokoll (IP) Adressen". No more English -
no more problems.

Many words from technical English are now part of the German language,
like Internet or Email, they follow German spelling (capitalised) and
grammar rules. Whether or not that is a good thing can be debated, but
the fact stands.
Alexander Zimmermann
2010-07-16 12:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
aachen.de says...
Post by Alexander Zimmermann
The problem is that when we combine one German word with more then one
English word, we need a dash between *all* words. On the other side, if
we write only English words, then we write *no* dashes... I know it's
complicate :-) Example
* Das sind Internet-Protocol-Adressen.
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protocol (IP).
Because you are already using German flexions, I would go the whole way
and say: "Das sind Internet Protokoll (IP) Adressen". No more English -
no more problems.
It's not that easy! I have a lot of acronyms that you cannot "transform"
to german, eg, Initial Sequence Number (ISN)
Post by Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
Many words from technical English are now part of the German language,
like Internet or Email, they follow German spelling (capitalised) and
grammar rules. Whether or not that is a good thing can be debated, but
the fact stands.
--
//
// Dipl.-Inform. Alexander Zimmermann
// Department of Computer Science, Informatik 4
// RWTH Aachen University
// Ahornstr. 55, 52056 Aachen, Germany
// phone: (49-241) 80-21468, fax: (49-241) 80-22220
// email: ***@cs.rwth-aachen.de
// web: http://www.umic-mesh.net
//
Philipp Stephani
2010-07-17 11:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
aachen.de says...
Post by Alexander Zimmermann
The problem is that when we combine one German word with more then one
English word, we need a dash between *all* words. On the other side, if
we write only English words, then we write *no* dashes... I know it's
complicate :-) Example
* Das sind Internet-Protocol-Adressen.
* Das beste Protokoll ist das Internet Protocol (IP).
Because you are already using German flexions, I would go the whole way
and say: "Das sind Internet Protokoll (IP) Adressen". No more English -
no more problems.
But that is also wrong because the hyphens are missing. I think there
are only two correct options:

- Internet-Protokoll-(IP-)Adressen
- Internet-Protokoll-Adressen (IP-Adressen)

Both are ugly, so I'd rather change the wording to explain "Internet
Protocol (IP)" without refering to IP-Adressen, and then use the
abbreviation exclusively.

BTW: It does not matter whether the words are English or German – proper
capitalization and usage of the hyphen is always required.
--
Change “LookInSig” to “tcalveu” to answer by mail.
d***@gmail.com
2017-08-06 13:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I'm facing the same problem and didn't find a solution. If someone knows a solution that would be great.

BW Maximilian
d***@gmail.com
2017-08-06 13:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I'm facing the same problem and didn't find a solution. If someone knows a solution that would be great. I think the only correct solution would be

- Internet-Protokoll-(IP-)Adressen

http://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/klammern-und-bindestrich

BW Maximilian
Nicola Talbot
2017-08-09 19:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Hi,
I'm facing the same problem and didn't find a solution. If someone knows a solution that would be great. I think the only correct solution would be
- Internet-Protokoll-(IP-)Adressen
http://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/klammern-und-bindestrich
BW Maximilian
With glossaries-extra v1.17 (2017-08-09) you can do:

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{glossaries-extra}

\glssetcategoryattribute{english}{markwords}{true}
\setabbreviationstyle[english]{long-hyphen-short-hyphen}

\newabbreviation[category=english]{ip}{IP}{Internet Protocol}

\begin{document}
First: \gls{ip}[-Adressen].

Next: \gls{ip}[-Adressen].

\glsresetall

First: \gls{ip}[ Address].

Next: \gls{ip}[ Address].

\end{document}

This produces:

First: Internet-Protocol-Adressen (IP-Adressen).
Next: IP-Adressen.
First: Internet Protocol Address (IP Address).
Next: IP Address.

If you need to use commands like \gls in the insert part, use the
long-hyphen-postshort-hyphen style instead to avoid problems with nested
links:

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[colorlinks]{hyperref}
\usepackage{glossaries-extra}

\glssetcategoryattribute{english}{markwords}{true}
\setabbreviationstyle[english]{long-hyphen-postshort-hyphen}

\newabbreviation[category=english]{ip}{IP}{Internet Protocol}

\newglossaryentry{Adressen}{name={Adressen},description={...}}

\begin{document}
First: \gls{ip}[-\gls{Adressen}].

Next: \gls{ip}[-\gls{Adressen}].

\glsresetall

First: \gls{ip}[ Address].

Next: \gls{ip}[ Address].

\printunsrtglossaries
\end{document}

I've only just uploaded v1.17 to CTAN, so give it a few days to appear
in the distributions.

Regards
Nicola Talbot
--
Home: http://www.dickimaw-books.com/
Creating a LaTeX Minimal Example:
http://www.dickimaw-books.com/latex/minexample/
Loading...