Discussion:
All punctuations should be in roman whereever it comes
(too old to reply)
MadyYuvi
2017-06-14 12:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi All,

Is there any way to make all the punctuations (comma, period, colon, semicolon, etc.) as in roman even it is in italic tag? I am using MikTeX V2.9 and mathtime package and its fonts for my setup and the tags are mentioned below:

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\begin{document}
....
\end{document}

Thanks,
MadyYuvi
Peter Wilson
2017-06-14 17:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Punctuation should be in the same font as the text --- italic for italic
text, roman for roman text. Eg \textit {words,} not \textit{words},

Peter W.
Post by MadyYuvi
Hi All,
\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\begin{document}
....
\end{document}
Thanks,
MadyYuvi
Peter Flynn
2017-06-14 19:53:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Wilson
Punctuation should be in the same font as the text --- italic for italic
text, roman for roman text.
I agree with that.
Post by Peter Wilson
Eg \textit {words,} not \textit{words},
I hesitate to disagree with PW, but unfortunately I don't agree with
this example. I would set the second, not the first; eg ``because
they're \emph{my words}, not his.'' The punctuation is not part of the
italicised phrase in this case.

But if we take a longer example:

{\itshape
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,\\
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven\\
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;\\
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
\par}

all those punctuation marks should be italic because the whole passage
is in italics --- they are embedded inside it.

MadyYuvi, are you asking for them to be in upright type? It's possible,
but it's manual:

{\itshape
The quality of mercy is not strain'd{\upshape,}\\
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven\\
Upon the place beneath{\upshape:} it is twice blest{\upshape;}\\
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes{\upshape:}
\par}

///Peter
Post by Peter Wilson
Post by MadyYuvi
Hi All,
Is there any way to make all the punctuations (comma, period, colon,
semicolon, etc.) as in roman even it is in italic tag? I am using
MikTeX V2.9 and mathtime package and its fonts for my setup and the
\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\begin{document}
....
\end{document}
Thanks,
MadyYuvi
MadyYuvi
2017-06-15 06:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Flynn
Post by Peter Wilson
Punctuation should be in the same font as the text --- italic for italic
text, roman for roman text.
I agree with that.
Post by Peter Wilson
Eg \textit {words,} not \textit{words},
I hesitate to disagree with PW, but unfortunately I don't agree with
this example. I would set the second, not the first; eg ``because
they're \emph{my words}, not his.'' The punctuation is not part of the
italicised phrase in this case.
{\itshape
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,\\
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven\\
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;\\
\par}
all those punctuation marks should be italic because the whole passage
is in italics --- they are embedded inside it.
MadyYuvi, are you asking for them to be in upright type? It's possible,
{\itshape
The quality of mercy is not strain'd{\upshape,}\\
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven\\
Upon the place beneath{\upshape:} it is twice blest{\upshape;}\\
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes{\upshape:}
\par}
///Peter
Post by Peter Wilson
Post by MadyYuvi
Hi All,
Is there any way to make all the punctuations (comma, period, colon,
semicolon, etc.) as in roman even it is in italic tag? I am using
MikTeX V2.9 and mathtime package and its fonts for my setup and the
\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\begin{document}
....
\end{document}
Thanks,
MadyYuvi
Yes Peter, you are correct, I need all the punctuation should be in roman, but is it possible to fix the same by auto instead of giving {\upshape;}? Pl suggest...
Ulrike Fischer
2017-06-15 09:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MadyYuvi
Yes Peter, you are correct, I need all the punctuation should be in roman, but is it possible to fix the same by auto instead of giving {\upshape;}? Pl suggest...
It is possible with a virtual font: You can create one, that takes
its punctuation symbols from the roman font.

With pdflatex it would need a few hours work (more if you also want
to fine tune the kerning) and some knowledge about fonts in general
and fontinst in particular. With lualatex is could be done a bit
faster.

You can also make the punctuations symbols active and define them to
switch to upshape. But be aware that this is dangerous -- you can
break other commands. E.g. period and dot are often used in numbers.

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[english]{babel}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
%\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\defineshorthand{.}{\textup{.}}
\defineshorthand{,}{\textup{,}}
\defineshorthand{;}{\textup{;}}

\useshorthands*{,}
\useshorthands*{.}
\useshorthands*{;}
\begin{document}
\itshape abc, abc; abc.

\shorthandoff{,}\shorthandoff{.}\shorthandoff{;}
abc, abc; abc.

\end{document}
--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/
Axel Berger
2017-06-15 11:21:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ulrike Fischer
With pdflatex it would need a few hours work (more if you also want
to fine tune the kerning) and some knowledge about fonts in general
and fontinst in particular. With lualatex is could be done a bit
faster.
It will also result in rather incompatible documents. My solution for
problems like these are editor makros. I'm confident that TeX users will
all have powerful (if different) editors in use.
--
/¯\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067
\ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Straße 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069
 X in | D-50829 Köln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de
/ \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --
Ulrike Fischer
2017-06-15 13:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Axel Berger
Post by Ulrike Fischer
With pdflatex it would need a few hours work (more if you also want
to fine tune the kerning) and some knowledge about fonts in general
and fontinst in particular. With lualatex is could be done a bit
faster.
It will also result in rather incompatible documents.
With lualatex it can be done on-the-fly in the document, see the
combofont package.

With pdflatex it is not much different to the use of local pictures
or a bib-file or input-files: if you pass the document to someone
else this additional files have to go with the main tex-document.
With a virtual font there would be only a few more.
--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/
MadyYuvi
2017-06-15 12:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ulrike Fischer
Post by MadyYuvi
Yes Peter, you are correct, I need all the punctuation should be in roman, but is it possible to fix the same by auto instead of giving {\upshape;}? Pl suggest...
It is possible with a virtual font: You can create one, that takes
its punctuation symbols from the roman font.
With pdflatex it would need a few hours work (more if you also want
to fine tune the kerning) and some knowledge about fonts in general
and fontinst in particular. With lualatex is could be done a bit
faster.
You can also make the punctuations symbols active and define them to
switch to upshape. But be aware that this is dangerous -- you can
break other commands. E.g. period and dot are often used in numbers.
\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[english]{babel}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
%\usepackage[T1,mtbold]{mathtime}
\usepackage{times}
\defineshorthand{.}{\textup{.}}
\defineshorthand{,}{\textup{,}}
\defineshorthand{;}{\textup{;}}
\useshorthands*{,}
\useshorthands*{.}
\useshorthands*{;}
\begin{document}
\itshape abc, abc; abc.
\shorthandoff{,}\shorthandoff{.}\shorthandoff{;}
abc, abc; abc.
\end{document}
--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/
Ulrike really you are great...its working but with one concern, is it possible to achieve this without using the package "babel"? please suggest...

Note that Im using MikTeX V2.9 and dvips and ps2pdf for generating output....
Ulrike Fischer
2017-06-15 13:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MadyYuvi
Ulrike really you are great...its working but with one concern, is
it possible to achieve this without using the package "babel"?
please suggest...
Sure. Copy all the relevant code for the definitions from the babel
package or write equivalent definitions. But as I don't see any
reason not to use babel I won't spent my time to do it (I do find
the general idea rather dubious anyway).
--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/
Peter Flynn
2017-06-15 19:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 06/15/2017 07:06 AM, MadyYuvi wrote:
[snip]
Post by MadyYuvi
Yes Peter, you are correct, I need all the punctuation should be in
roman,
I am very curious to know why. In 50 years of typesetting I have never
come across this before.

///Peter
Peter Flynn
2017-06-26 20:49:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Flynn
[snip]
Post by MadyYuvi
Yes Peter, you are correct, I need all the punctuation should be in
roman,
I am very curious to know why. In 50 years of typesetting I have never
come across this before.
Barbara Beeton has provided me with an answer in email: apparently
it's only relevant in math, which the OP failed to mention.
Post by Peter Flynn
Post by MadyYuvi
[bb] In particular, in theorems, where the mixture of all upright
punctuation in the math expressions and the italic of the theorem
text [...] demands more uniformity. Since it's not feasible to make
the math punctuation (especially the delimiters) italic, setting all
the punctuation upright is much less jarring in the long run.
Makes perfect sense for math. It makes perfect nonsense for normal text,
I suspect :-)

///Peter

Loading...